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Tuesday, 27 November 2012

Jacob Prasch: A Vindictive Railer. Are These actions and Words Conducive Of A True Man Of God?





I had known of Jacob Prasch for many years and heard him preach many times. I had up until now excused his very brash style because I naively used to believe that he was a true man of God who preached truth and was used of God to expose false teachers and prophets.




However, in recent years it has come to my attention how Jacob is not just behaving like a bully but is also actually preaching elements of heresy  such as his "work based" salvation (Arminian) theology, his partial rapture for only "worthy" believers (again "work based") and his extra biblical (Enoch) teachings on the Nephilim. To see why the Arminian theology is heresy, please read that article by clicking here).

To read what Jacob says about the Nephilim please go to (http://www.moriel.org/Teaching/Online/Future_History_of_the_Church/Part_3-04_Nephilim.html see also the bottom of this article for the screenshot image of that page especially read the part where Jacob ADDS to the Bible).

AND

more specifically how his "behaviour is getting worse and worse".  IT IS TIME for true believers to stand up and say with a big collective voice "ENOUGH already!".

Jacob you are bringing the Christian message into disrepute by your disgraceful rants. Repent and humble yourself under the mighty hand of God.

The following things written by Jacob (below) are groundless accusations against Deborah. She hosts a blog which I used to contribute to    (see notes at the very bottom in blue).
She has presented accuracy with very clear documentary evidence of the things she writes.

Of course she may have (occasionally) used some of her own conclusions, but Jacob's attack is simply because he has been found out and is reacting (over reacting).  I have checked out (for myself) what Deborah has written. Much of what she says is definite evidence and been argued rationally, mostly fairly and scripturally. Certainly it is nonsense for Jacob to accuse her of those things below.

Below is what Jacob has written. Are these the words of a man of God? Especially notice what he said in red/bold writing.

"The invented out and out lie by “Deborah” that I call such brethren heretics in the book or elsewhere is a vicious and demonstrable lie obviolly embraced by her lunatic followers such as “Redeemed” etc. Sherry B. rather statss vicious things. One of these religious fruitcakes calls those not in agreeement with pre trib, “Ministers of Satan”. The point is that it is fully documented that Deborah is lied and spread slander. We are warned such people would come in the last days by Paul in 2 Tim. 3:3 where the term for such liars as Deborah is “diaboloi” or demonic people. Plainly, anyone who tells such obvious lies aimed to misrepresent the truth to others with an intent to defame is demonic. The Word of God, not Jacob Prasch , calls Deborah ‘demonic’
Redeemed and the Mawany etc. who believe her on face value without examining the facts themselves which prove she lied are in violation of The Word of God themselves (John 7:51). I will not comment on William Saunders because I know him to be a deceiver who secretly tape records conversations with an aim to distortion abd entrapment and such a low life is not worth the time of day.

Deborah however delights in lying. Another of her lies is that I am anti KJV. The article and recording I did in the public domain entitled “the Plastic Bible” only has me expressing hatred fir ‘The Message’, inclusivist translations, and the 2012 gender inclusive edition of the NIV. The KJV however is endorsed in that transcript and on that recording as a valid translation. In the book I authored on Laodicea, William Tyndale ( upon whose earlier work the majority of the KJV was based by Coverdale etc.) is extolled as a great hero for Christ and Erasmus of Rotterdam, who fused together the four earlier Byzantian manuscripts into the Textus Receptus which forms most of the Greek basis for the KJV New Testament is lauded as a great scholar who did more to engender Reformation than Luther.
Please read fir yourselves, Deborah is. Proven liar abd be prima faci documented as a liar in any court of law by the rules of Juris Prudence although I do not sue other Christians despite the fact that I must question if this slandering witch and daughter of Jezabel is one. No liar shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven . I hope this pathological liar repents for her own sake.

Not only is she a liar however, she is a fraud and a charlatan. What makes her an ignoramus is not that she did not know that midrash was actually in the scriptures, nor that she associated my belief in what is scriptural with the later writings of the rabbis they too called midrash which I in the book openly warn against ( she loves to identify me with what I have actively opposed). These things just add further credence to the fact that she is nothing more than a contemptable demonised liar.

What makes her an ignoramus is that she misrepresents herself chronically as knowing things she plainly does not be ause of her narcissistic arrogance.

Anyone wanting a bibliography of conservative Evangelical scholars who affirm the use of scriptural midrash by the New Testament authors which accounts for the way the manner in which the New Testament handles the Old Testament, or woshes to know the difference between the use of midrash in scripture and the later corruptions of the term by the rabbis is invited to visit the Moriel website and other websites examining these issues,

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John whom we can the Evangelists authored four gospels in the First century. Hundreds if years later in the fourth and fifth centuries Gnostic herestic authored other fraudulent accounts of Jesus they also called gospels ( eg. The Gopel of Thomas accepted by Islam). Anyone who rejects Matthew , Mark, Luke, and John because centuries later gnostics wrote other so called gospels would have to be an idiot.

Likewise, while I do not believe we need extra biblical sources to understand God’s Word ( and never have contrary to the filthy lies of a filthy demon inspired liar named Deborah) , to reject a perfectly scriptural hermeneutic like Midrash because rabbis came along centuries and wrote rubbish they called midrash would be the same brand if idiocy. Deborah is just such an idiot.

Not knowing who the late Dallas Semi ary President John Walvoord is in regard to pre trib is like not knowing who Luther is regarding the Reformation. Shre stupidly writes that if read from the begining 2 Thessalonians 2 is not about the rapture when Paul states absolutely in the first verse that it is about the ‘episunagoge’ our gathering to Jesus at His coming (at which point The Day of The Lord’ is inaugerated). This is a very stupid woman indeed. Proverbs warns us that even a know nothing appears wise if they have the common sense to keep their mouth shut when they do not know what they are talking about.

Why would anyone other than an undiscerning simpleton pay any attention to a slandering witch motivated by demons? Why would people like Redeemed etc. disregard the Wordif The Word and swallow open lies while claiming to have discernment.

John Chingford apologised for his attempts to associate me with Laussane which I left in protest over 15 years ago and have warned against and even signed a petition against. True, his efforts to link me via Chuck Smith to Lonnie Frisbee and Kathryn Kuhlman [note added by John Chingford - no I didn't!!!], two figures I never even met but have in print warned against. Wereinfuriating. It did result in my calling him a crackpot and a thug etc. [note added by John Chingford - never received an apology for this]

But your bloggers overlook the established fact that what he wrote against me is proven wrong and he himself now apologetically admits was wrong.
If anyone has real discernment, they will avoid this disgusting liar . She is inspired by demons , she us ignorant of the matters she asserts herself about, and above all she is proven to be acompulsive patholigical liar.

Those on this website are fellowshipping not in truth or in the Spirit of Jesus, but in ignorance, stupidity, and lies.
These are the facts.
I only rise to my defense for the sake of any young believers being miled by this wicked daughter of darkness and the demons from whom she unknowingly takes her orders.

I warn you from The Word of God on the basis of the documented facts that Deborah is a servant of demons. Examine the facts, examine the scriptures and stand accountable before God for your own decisions.
In Christ,
Jacob Prasch
Moriel"

Earlier on that article Jacob wrote a completely inaccurate rant against me via his associate Chris. I did subsequently write to Jacob but never received an apology. On that article Jacob said:

"John Chingford, whoever he is, is plainly a babbling religious crackpot and a cheap mouthed hooligan if not an out and out liar.
> As with many of his sort of cessationist Calvinists, he is a mere ignoramus and a thug.
> Neither I or Moriel have had any association with Lausanne in over 15 years in part due to the ecumenical issue.
Earlier this year I signed a statement opposing its ecumenical direction. Chingford is a sower of discord who characteristically does not know what he is even talking about . Please ask Chris to tell him I said so.
Yes, I have been associated with brothers such as Chuck Smith although I have at times publicly disagreed with them, but I would never associate with an ignorant , spiritually deluded buffoon like John Chingford.
Do not hesitate to forward him my comments or post them on his blog ( without my e mail address).
Jacob Prasch"


As I say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH". Until Jacob repents he should not be allowed to be given a platform to preach anymore.

The above are JUST examples of his comments on just two days. If you search the internet you will see many many other similar outbursts.

Edited 3rd Dec 2012
Subsequent to this article being written, Jacob added something to the Moriel website that indicates that he may actually have ecumenical tendencies. Some comments were written about this regarding his endorsement of Doug Harris who is a proved ecumenist. Please look at this direct link to the comments on this:

http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2012/11/are-these-wordsactions-of-true-man-of.html?showComment=1354445318731#c623655301573976105

However, today the link to Moriel's article on Doug Harris  http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/announcements/prayer-request/urgent-prayer-request-4
has been removed. I could foresee that happening so that Jacob could call us liars again. Therefore, I took a screen shot of the article before it got removed as follows (note: you will need to click on the image to enlargen it):

Notice it says that Reachout trust is "an important apologetics ministry that evangelises cults. Dougpossibly the leading UK apologist" Is that not an endorsement of Doug's ecumenical ministry?"





The above image can also be found on:
http://www.discerningtheworld.com/images/wpi/Moriel-PrayerRequest-DougHarris-ReadoutTrustUK.pdf


Here is another screenshot (taken today 8th Dec 2012) which shows Jacob's disturbing belief (just like the views of Chuck Missler) of the extra biblical teaching about the returning Nephilim in the latter days. Again, you will need to click on the image to enlargen the print. Notice how he ADDS to the Bible something the Bible DOES NOT SAY. I quote the important part below the image.



Taken from: http://www.moriel.org/Teaching/Online/Future_History_of_the_Church/Part_3-04_Nephilim.html

Please note the statement made by Jacob in the third paragraph within the image:

"The Nephilim, the fallen ones, are strange characters in Genesis. It would appear that they survived the Flood; whether the Nephilim who were in the land of Canaan when the Jews came to it are a different Nephilim from the ones who were spoken of before the flood is an issue over which theologians are divided; no one is really certain. Some say they are the same ones, some say they're different. If they are the same, it would mean they had survived the deluge somehow. Nonetheless, these things are “the fallen ones”, and we're told in Scripture that they copulated with human women."

This is what the BIBLE (not Jacob) says in Gen 6:7:

"So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” and again in verse 13:

"So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth." 

The Bible then goes on to give a very clear account how everyone and everything was destroyed by the flood except those in the ark. The Nephilim WERE NOT in the ark!!!

How can you trust Jacob to be a man who speaks truth when he adds to the Bible and fabricates stories in order to prove his own theology?

Edited 21 Feb 2013
Since all this kicked off, Jacob implied that he might start a CYBER WAR against Deborah. Soon afterwards a wordpress site was set up seeking to defame Deborah and got REALLY personal and nasty Click Here giving personal details even about her husband. We managed to get wordpress to take that site down because it broke the rules of confidentiality. That link is still available but only giving details of why it was taken down.However, within a day or so a new site replaced it (not a blog) Click Here which simply copied most of what was there before and continued on.

It  really shows how "sick" these people are and totally without grace or mercy, seeking to destroy rather than to build up. Is this really how born again believers behave?????

* LDW note 23rd Jun 2013.  I no longer contribute to DTW because I can no longer accept the unloving and harsh way people are treated there. On this same subject, I am actually very grieved by the way many blogs treat each other. For this reason I have now written a new article on the subject entitled:

"Appealing To Christian Blog Writers and Born Again Believers Everywhere To Demonstrate Love"

Please click here to read it:
http://www.watchmanforjesus.blogspot.co.uk/2013/06/appealing-to-christian-blog-writers-and.html).

43 comments:

Deborah (Discerning the World) said...

continuation of comment...2

To Jacob Prasch.

— I don’t care to know who the late President John Walvoord from the Dallas Seminary is, I care to know what is in the Bible regarding the teaching of the Rapture and correct biblical interpretation.

— John apologised to you (for mis-understanding that you used to belong to the Luasanne movement, but no longer do, that you do belong to Jews for Jesus who are ecumenical they believe that Catholics are christian too – which you stated you will only be leaving only at the beginning of 2013.) and you never even bothered to apologize back to John for calling him those ghastly names.

— You say that we cannot understand the bible without Midrash, were I believe we can understand the Bible with the Holy Spirit only

— Slain in the Spirit teaching – http://www.moriel.org/Newsletter/2010/4Q-2010-Ephesus.pdf on page 6

— Demonic Nephilim teaching in practically all your videos and books (This is the same teaching as Chuck Missler)

— Moriel loves mentioning John Wesley (who believed you can lose your salvation – this is works based salvation) and George Whiefield (who was a Calvinist)

— Praise for John MacArthur (Calvinist) among other false teachers.

— Moriel teach that you can lose your salvation.

— Distorted eschatological view: anti Pre-Trib.

— Preaching of a ‘partial rapture’ theory where only obedient saints will be raptured, disobedient saints will go through tribulation.

— Strong Messianic teaching – calling Christians back to their Hebrew Roots. Apparently we have a different theology to those who have Midrash. Jacob says, “Something went wrong in the early Church; it got away from its Jewish roots. And as more Gentiles became Christians, something that Paul (in Romans 11) warned should not happen, happened. People lost sight of the root. Whenever you have a change in world-view, you’re going to have a change in theology.” http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/midrash.htm

Thanks for you comment, it will be a wonderful eye opener to many :) People are most definitely examining the facts. I ask that everyone please read this article by Jacob Prasch and see for themselves: http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/midrash.htm

I never insulted you, or judged you. I feel sorry for you Jacob, I pray that God softens your heart and opens your eyes to the truth.

Deborah (Discerning the World) said...

Then this is another comment...

Jacob Prash

>> Shre stupidly writes that if read from the begining 2 Thessalonians 2 is not about the rapture when Paul states absolutely in the first verse that it is about the ‘episunagoge’ our gathering to Jesus at His coming (at which point The Day of The Lord’ is inaugerated). This is a very stupid woman indeed.

Um Nope!. I never said that. You didn’t bother to read the rest of the article, just the first few sentences, or just scan through it. I said, “What exactly is “the day of the Lord’”? The day of the Lord is The Tribulation made up of two parts; The Tribulation being first 3.5 years and the Great Tribulation being last 3.5 years, totaling 7 years from start to finish PLUS Jesus’ Second Coming and the Millennial reign of Jesus Christ!”

Call me all the names in the world, I’ll even turn the other cheek. You however are still wrong.

Anonymous said...

John Chingford avoids the fact that he lied (I never knew Lonnie Frisbee but warned agasinst him) and his Deborah friend lied (I never stated in any of my books that pre trib believers are heretics or that I hate the KJV).


Once the liasrs are proven to lie, they become the victims instead of those whom they lied against.

In light of the lies aimed at everyone from myself to Chuck Smith to David Hocking and others , my response is valid.

Chingfor and his ilk need to repent. God does not appreciate slandering liuars, and he is documented to be one of them.


My tone in addressing religious liars who deceive people by the power of demons is no different from how Jesus responded to such liars in Matrthew 23.

The establishede documented fact is that they lied and did so publicly.


In 2 Timothy chapt. 3 Paul in thje Greek calls those who lie and slander 'Demonoi'; they are demonic.

I simply adhere to scripture and I have taught no false doctrine.

I am frankly left to wonder if Mr. Chingford did not lie if he would have anything to say.

JJ Prasch

Anonymous said...

As I read the above article my heart simply broke. Jesus said the world would recognize us by the love that we have one for another. I firmly believe that "ALL THINGS" can be done IN LOVE!! Even a word of rebuke or correction can be spoken in a firm, loving way without name calling and nasty words. I know often when dealing with the Pharisee's and religious leader's and people Jesus's words were strong, he used negative analogies to describe them, their personalities and actions (fox, whited-sepulchres,hyocrites,
vipers,etc.) But they were not following Jesus, they were always seeking to accuse Him and oppose Him. If a brother or sister in Christ is teaching heresy or something totally against the Word of God, it is always okay to point out the error, especially if it will cause others to stumble in their faith. WE SHOULD ALL CONTEND FOR THE FAITH, but how can I say I am speaking in love if I'm attacking the person and calling them names like demons, fruitcakes, low lifes, ignoramuses, stupid, idiots? Is that truly portraying a loving, gentle, and meek spirit? Let's meditate on the following versus:
2 Timothy 2:24-26
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Within the Body of Christ, there does come times when one must be "sharply rebuked", but in my spirit, I know that this can be done without name calling and a mean spirit. I don't think Paul resorted to name calling when he rebuked Peter before the Judaizers. Let's live according to God's Word, and walk in LOVE!!

Colin said...

Hello John,
Very sad about this.

It is inexcusable the insults that Jacob Prasch hurled at you, but as you well know not unforgivable.
I just cannot fathom why he would talk thus?

It would seem that many are neglecting the 'Weightier matters'.
I just heard Jacob quote at Bridge Lane (18/11/2012) that they teach 'good doctrine'! Yet as you know that is NOT what he says in his book!?

I wonder if Mr Pearce has read 'Shadows of the Beast'?
The Lord had much to say about the hypocrisy of the Pharisees...
Kind regards.

John Chingford said...

Jacob

In your comment above you said:

"My tone in addressing religious liars who deceive people by the power of demons is no different from how Jesus responded to such liars in Matrthew 23."

Wow, that sounds like a blasphemous comment to make. I will explain why in two parts.

Firstly you are blackening the very nature of Jesus and secondly you are putting yourself on the same level as Him, giving yourself the right to do/say the things that only Jesus has the right to say or do.

I will now address this in more detail

First: why does it blacken the nature of Jesus?

Only ONCE in the NT (as far as I can recall) did Jesus ever call anyone the son of satan. In addressing the religious leaders he said "you are of your father the devil". THIS WAS AN EXCEPTION. He also said "woe to you scribes and pharisees". Was that an insult or a warning? It was a warning (because the word indicates a warning) that if they did not repent something terrible would happen. Jesus NEVER reacted out of temper tantrums. His words (even in anger) were ALWAYS full of compassion and love.

After Jesus said "woe to you" He ended by showing his compassion by saying "how often I would have gathered you together as a hen gathers her chicks but you would not".

Other times Jesus said some hard things, as did the apostle Paul "you brood of vipers". Was that an insult? No, again He was showing that the pharisees were poisonous in the things they spoke and was calling them to repent - not out of hate but out of real love, mercy and compassion.

Second:
Jacob, you are actually putting yourself up on a pedestal on the same level as Jesus.

Do you think you have the right to judge the heart and mind of individuals? We only have the right to judge the words spoken whether they are true or false.

ONLY JESUS knows what is in a man. Only He knows the condition and intentions of our heart. Only He knows what we are thinking. Therefore, you have absolutely no right to call people sons or daughters of satan. Whilst Jesus rarely said such things, you are frequently using such words.

You do not know my heart. Only Jesus does!

However, Jesus did say

"out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks".

I cannot and do not have the right to judge your heart Jacob, but I can see that there is something wrong because of the words you speak.

You may say that the apostle Paul said some harsh things. Let me ask you Jacob, were you around at the time of Jesus to be an eye witness of Jesus's life, death and resurrection? Only those who were entrusted to start the church were given apostolic rights. However, even then, they acted mostly with REAL love, mercy and compassion. It was only when the church and the new covenant of grace were being endangered that they spoke out, but it was filled with a much more tender attitude than you are showing.

Quite honestly, as a leader do you measure up to the instructions given to Timothy regarding what a leader looks like?

Regarding Jesus. He is the Son of God, the alpha and the Omega, from everlasting to everlasting, is perfect, is Lord of Heaven and Earth etc etc to infinite.

He has a GOD given right to judge us. Only He searches our hearts, Only He knows the right measure to use, i.e judgement mixed with GREAT compassion, mercy etc etc.

Please come off your pedestal and start showing humilty, brokenness showing compassion and mercy and leave those things which belong to God to HIM. Please get back to exposing false teachers and cease with your ungodly, unloving, hateful insults.

Jacob Prasch said...

This provedn liar John Chingford is the same slanderer who lied against Tony Pearce, Bib Mitchell asnd others. Jesus called religious liars what they ware "liars".

Someone named Colin dislike my response to a lie but seems to have no problem with the lie. I am not ecumenical and never have been. I do not call pre trib brethren heretics because they are not. etc. All Chingford & Co. do is tell lies. I am not their first target asnd will not likely be their last.

He works for the devil the father of lies. Jacob Prasch

John Chingford said...

Jacob, please show me where I ever said anything in opposition to Tony Pearce on my blog or anywhere else. I never have.

Where do you get all your information from?

On my blog I give EVIDENCE by showing the links. All you do is spout out your own opinions - some are made up. Where are your facts? Where are the links which prove what you are saying to be true? You call me a liar. Please prove it.

Yes, I opposed Bob Mitchell because he is interpreting the OT and NT using extra biblical books to do so and uses questionable other sources. For example he uses the book of Enoch to help him arrive at a similar Chuck Missler theory of Nephilim and UFO's.

We get the impression from the things you preach that you also teach that same doctrine as CM and use the book of Enoch? Please correct us if this is not the case.

Anonymous said...

How can Jacob Prasch say that John Chingford is serving Satan when it is evident that John is a seeker of truth. He defends sound doctrine here. He gives the true gospel. I don't think our Lord Jesus would call John a liar.

John has raised some valid questions and it would be helpful if Jacob would simply answer rather than hurl insults. John has not called Jacob names or insulted him. God is the only One Who knows the heart of a man. When one is simply trying to be a good Berean, why are they called a liar? I simply do not understand. I suppose Jacob would consider me a stupid ignoramus. I am just a plain, ordinary person, but I love the Lord and His truth. I have seen a lot of it here on John's blog. He is not serving Satan.

This makes me truly sad to see John's integrity questioned and I believe it grieves the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps it would behoove Jacob to review what is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Colin said...

Jacob
ALL lies are from below. I DO have a problem with liars! Although following this sad debacle, I have lost track about which lies are being referred to.

Theologically I am poles apart from Mr Chingford and Deborah at DTW, and many, many others. Not that I have ever once called myself a Calvinist, but I DO believe that all 5 points ARE biblical.

I am a blood bought believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. Also I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture.

I believe that Dispensational theology carves up the Scriptures to such an extent that many folk that are pre-trib don't know which verses in the gospel are for the Church, and which ones are for Israel!

From my personal studies thus far, I am a pre-millennial, post tribulation believer. In the last three years I have read many and varied works on prophecy/eschatology (even yours).

As a result of what I believe, I have been called many names such as heretic,Roman Catholic etc.

Granted I don't have a big ministry like yours to protect, and to some extent I can understand why you get angry. But I do pray that you would moderate your language.

I used to be pre-trib (not that I could ever understand the mechanics of it! Does anyone?), and as a result of my studies occasionally I witness whenever and wherever I can.

Many times in person and online I sometimes get hot under the collar, but by the grace of God, manage to control myself! Your ministry is NOT a member of Lausanne and you obviously know the wickedness of ecumenism. I do understand however that there are some ministries with links to your site who are members of Lausanne.

In your 'Shadows of the Beast' you haven't labelled our pre-trib brethren as heretics, although I believe the language you use can be interpreted somewhat to that end? What do you think?

I think it very good that you are teaching against the pre-trib rapture.

By the way, I think that you will find that John Chingford has a high regard for Tony Pearce. In many ways (rapture timing apart)Tony is a fine bible teacher.

Anonymous said...

Colin, even though you are not in agreement with DTW & LDW in certain areas, you surely can state that John and others who disagree do so agreeably and stick to biblical discussion. I don't think that you would ever accuse John Chingford of lying or serving Satan or being an unbeliever despite your differences, would you?

Jacob Prasch said...

Dear Brother Colin

Blessings in Jesus.

John Chingford did misquote both Tony Pearce and Bob Mitchell as he did me. It seems to be his modus operandi.

Like yourself , I agree most dispensationalists take it way too far (David Pawson would also agree); there are two fundamental dispensatyions, not 7 or 8.

I aslso like yourself am strongly pre milkleniasl and like yourself neither am I pre tribulational, although many fine brethren in The Lord indeed are. To me this is not a barrier to fellowship and is a matter for dialogue not division.
Mucvh less is it grounds to engage to engage in open slander as DTW does. My problemn is rather with those who deny a rapture rather than with those placing it bat a different point than I, or for that matter,you would.

I cannot control who linbks to our website, but no one can assert the false statements concerning m,y position on ecumenism as DTW and Mr Chingford have done and be considered honest, much less Christian in their ethos. Lying is wrong and 2 Tim 3:3 calls slandering other believers demonic in the Greek text.

I therefore must reaffirm my cvonvictions that Barbara of DTW is indeed demonic because that it what God's Word says.

I respect many Calvinists (for which DTW also attack me)despite my disagreement with Calvinism.

While it is absolutely true that I strongly have attacked Pre Tribulationism as false, this should not be equated with attacking pre tribulationists. On page 16 of that book I take great pains to pay them tribute and to endorse the ministreies of a number of them. Therefore , it is here my brother, I cannot agree with your comments.

None the less, we do appear to otherwise share much common ground.

In Jesus,
Jacob Prasch

Anonymous said...

Colin Said:

In your 'Shadows of the Beast' you haven't labelled our pre-trib brethren as heretics, although I believe the language you use can be interpreted somewhat to that end? What do you think?

Strange that Prasch did not address this. He clearly indicated that pretrib teaching is DANGEROUS to the Body of Christ. If he truly believes that it deceives Christians and puts them at risk, how can he then do an about-face and speak highly of them? This is double-speak. He may not actually come out and call them heretics, but insinuates that they are false prophets. A rose by any other name smells as sweet.

Everyone is free to reach their own conclusions regarding eschatology and it should not be a point of division. But to call one position a DANGEROUS teaching and harmful to believers is tantamount to calling those who teach it false prophets or heretics.

It could be considered DANGEROUS to encourage believers to be concerned as to the identity of the AntiChrist rather than what those who hold to pretrib call the Blessed Hope.

Also, I find it strange that Jacob Prasch would refer to Colin as "Brother" when he makes it clear that he holds to the tenets of Calvinism and John Chingford defends against it because it IS a point of division because it guts the Gospel of Christ and His sacrifice on the cross.

TULIP or any portion of it is a false Gospel and John has spelled that out clearly from the Word. Mr. Prasch can give credit to a believer in TULIP and says they have "common ground" based upon some agreement concerning eschatology.

Again, there can be differences regarding eschatology, but TULIP that goes to basic doctrine is okay?

John Chingford said...

Mr Prasch

I will not publish any more of your comments until you can honour my request to insert proof of what you accuse us of. You are simply giving your opinions and some of them are making up stories to suit yourself and indeed you (in fact)are the one misquoting us.

Again I ask, where did I misquote Tony Pearce or say anything in opposition to him?

Indeed, can you show me where I misquoted Bob Mitchell?

Deborah (Discerning the World) said...

Jacob Prasch said:

>> I therefore must reaffirm my cvonvictions that Barbara of DTW is indeed demonic because that it what God's Word says.


Whoohoooo, it is Barbara who is demonic and not Deborah. Pheeewwww. At least we have that sorted out.

PS, who on earth is Barbara? LOL.

Deborah (Discerning the World) said...

Anonymous said, "Also, I find it strange that Jacob Prasch would refer to Colin as "Brother" when he makes it clear that he holds to the tenets of Calvinism and John Chingford defends against it because it IS a point of division because it guts the Gospel of Christ and His sacrifice on the cross."

This is not strange at all, Jacob Prasch is very much in favour of Calvinism. If you look at how many Calvinists he considers 'men of God' you will get a big surprise.

Jacob Prasch endorses, John MacArthur, Paul Washer, J.C. Ryle, George Whiefield, Charles Spurgeon from what I have found SO FAR.

Deborah (Discerning the World) said...

Jacob says "I respect many Calvinists (for which DTW also attack me)despite my disagreement with Calvinism."

How can you respect false teachers and their false teaching?

Again DOUBLE TALK.

Colin said...

Anonymous,
Yes I heartily agree. We must ever strive to be gracious one to another.

As I have previously said, I do pray that Jacob would moderate his speech, and may I add, considerably.

We must ever understand that a correct understanding of eschatology will not save us from our sins. It is only repentance and faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe the repentant thief on his cross would bear testimony to this.

Having said that, our blessed Lord warns us many times against deception. False doctrine is just that. I can only agree with Jacob that pre-tribulationism is wrong.

Again, I believe that as a bible teacher, his main contention was against those that denied the veracity of the rapture, NOT its timing. I think this is why he has shared the platform with many pre-trib ministries. They KNOW that he isn't pre-trib, yet he is welcomed at their meetings!

I have often wondered about this. Even in 'Who's Who' in Prophecy, which is a pre-trib website, he is lauded as an excellent teacher! Work that one out?

As to this age old controversy as regards election and free-will, or rather Calvinism versus Arminianism, we must ever be gracious one to another.

As said above, I came to a firm conviction that the doctrines of grace or Calvinism, so-called, are fimly embedded in the pages of Holy Writ. From memory, I believe that Charles Spurgeon had a high view of Wesley, even though their theology wasn't in agreement. We should ever try to be gracious one to another.

I can't comment on some particulars, because I have no knowledge of all the facts. As I have said earlier, I am 'poles apart' with many on this blogsite.

No I would not ever call John Chingford a minister of Satan, unless he confesses that he is such..perish the thought! Jacob is his own man, and he knows that he will be accountable for 'every idle word'.

Let us all grow in grace...
Lord be merciful to me, a sinner

Anonymous said...

Colin, you are absolutely correct. No matter our differences we should be gracious to each other. We can state firmly our convictions, but do so civily. I have never seen John Chingford do anything but be a gentleman.

The reason I called out TULIP was because Jacob Prasch purports to be opposed to that belief and yet rakes John over the coals and doesn't even cite any "common ground" with him.

God bless.


John Chingford said...

Here is a rhetorical question: how many times has Jacob called us liars on this blog and on Deborah's DTW blog?

He seems to be an authority on lies. If anybody had the time or inclination to study all the things that Jacob has said about us on these two blogs, they would notice that he (himself) has in fact launched a tirade of lies about us by simply throwing out unsubstantiated statements about us.

Also his replies on those things we question him on (especially re ecumenism) are contradictory. I will address both.

Firstly, I will give some examples about the things Jacob has accused just me of, on this blog and on DTW. None of them are true and none of them substantiated! You will not find these true on this either blog.

I am sure Deborah, Redeemed, William Saunders etc etc can add to this list.

"This provedn liar John Chingford is the same slanderer who lied against Tony Pearce" my remark: huh???.

"John Chingford did misquote Tony Pearce It seems to be his modus operandi" my remark: again huh???

"John Chingford has in the pat lied against everyone from Bob Mitchell to Tony Pearce, so I suppose it just my turn." my remark: huh???

"You have a perverse mind Mr. Chingford. Trying to link me with people I always warned of such as Lonnie Frisbee" my remark: when did I link him to Lonnie???

"his efforts to link me via Chuck Smith to Lonnie Frisbee and Kathryn Kuhlman" my remark: yet again huh???

"As with many of his sort of cessationist Calvinists" my remark: where does he get these ideas from?

"John Chingford apologised for his attempts to associate me with Laussane".

I never sought to associate you with Lausanne! I simply raised the question if you were still associated with Lausanne and why, because Moriel was still showing links to Lausanne on their site - I apologised because I later discovered that these links were OLD web pages which had (inadvertantly) not been removed.

See how Jacob twists things. Twisting is a form of lying.

John Chingford said...

Cont. Now regarding Jacob's apparent contradictory position on ecumenism:

What about Jacob's claim that he is not ecumenical and preaches against it?.

Unlike Jacob I will enclose firm hard evidence (at the bottom of this comment)that Jacob is contradictory regarding his claim to be non ecumenical.

We already have shown evidence that Jacob counts amongst his ongoing friends (although he claims to disagree with them) Chuck Missler and Chuck Smith. So what about his association and endorsement of Doug Harris (of Reachout Trust) who chairs debates on the NOW ecumenical Revelation TV and Calvin Smith.

Doug Harris in 2011 made an amazing comment pro ecumenical statement in answer to this question:

:"Is it okay for a born again Christian to worship in a Catholic Church if it's the only church local and no transport?”The answer shocked many viewers. Doug Harris answered: “Yes.” Howard Conder: “Thank you.” The conversation continued:

"'I think it is this idea of feeling that we, as Protestants, we are all against Catholics; we are not. I've met many people that I've witnessed to, that they are Christians as we've talked and only afterwards they told me they are Catholics. We do have to be careful - does the Catholic Church sometimes do things that we would may be feel are extra biblical and that? - Yes.
“I can understand why people have question marks, but in the end if it's the only place around, if there's no where else to go, maybe you should go and get fellowship there. In the end you really have to be led by the Holy Spirit: what we say isn't God's Word to you, we pass our opinions.

“If you are comfortable in the Holy Spirit doing that, fine. Be aware, there might be some things that you would totally disagree with from the biblical point of view but at the same time maybe you just need that fellowship and you need that encouragement, you need that place where you need to be with other people."

found on: http://www.thefreepressonline.co.uk/news/1/2297.htm

Now that we have started to show that Doug is ecumenical. Here is even more evidence of that fact. Please watch this video of an ecumenical; debate in early 2012 http://vimeo.com/41346367 which has Doug Harris discussing ecumenism with Calvin Smith.

Calvin Smith who writes on Moriel displays (on this video) that it is okay to share a platform with Catholics over a "common purpose". He also stated that he admired the other "ecumenical" guest for the work she was doing. He made several other "ecumenical" statements.

Then on 1st December 2012 (yesterday) we have this article on Moriel's website:

"Moriel & Jacob Prasch request urgent prayer for Brother Doug Harris of REACHOUT Trust in the UK, an important apologetics ministry that evangelises cults. Doug , possibly the leading UK apologist, was taken to hospital in an emergency with a tumour near his liver. We pray it will be benign and that he will recover quickly.

http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/

Of course we must pray for Doug and I do not wish to attack him at this time but pray for his healing AND revelation that ecumenism (in any shape) is wrong, but the point here is that Jacob is endorsing the ecumenist Doug Harris as an important apologetics ministry.

John Chingford said...

Here is a more permanent link to Jacob's endorsement of Doug Harris:

http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/announcements/prayer-request/urgent-prayer-request-4

Colin said...

John,

Yes, that latest statement on Moriels website is quite troubling, to say the least.

Now I am all for reconciliation etc. But NOT with the Roman Church!

It was ME that alerted the Freepress. My wife was watching Revelation TV and quoted verbatim to me EXACTLY what Doug said. I couldn't believe it!

He tried to make amends by saying that this statement was only a small part in a two hour programme! Clearly he is an ecumenist, and that statement he made truly revealed RTV's ecumenical agenda, just like their CBN partners. This is no different than Billy Graham sending people to the Roman Church. It is pointless delivering people from the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Buddhism etc, if you are sending them to Rome!

The net result is the same. Moriel is not a member of Lausanne, but they are in association with some members of this organisation. I would certainly hope that Jacob would clarify this latest statement from Moriel regarding Reachout Trust

Colin said...

John,
It goes without saying that I share your sentiments regarding Doug's health, recovery and revelation regarding ecumenism etc.

BTW that statement on Moriel regarding Reachout Trust is by MORIELCAROL not Jacob Prasch. I hope he does indeed clarify this. It would appear that they are not all singing from the same hymn sheet.

John Chingford said...

Hi Colin

Do you have the link to that Revelation TV show which proves Doug said those things? Please send it here, so that I can post it.

Thanks

In any case, the video I posted reinforces Doug's ecumenical views any way.

John Chingford said...

FROM THE HORSES MOUTH:

Actually, I do not need to find the video where Doug Harris quoted the above words (probably not available anymore).

Here is a link direct to Reachout Trust where Doug explains himself. Actually he seems to be digging an even bigger hole exposing his ecumenical/Roman leanings even more.

http://www.reachouttrust.org/articlePDFView.php?id=461

Please read from the part that has this heading "TRANSCRIPT OF BROADCAST".

Sorry Doug but you miss the point. You suggest that if born again believers live in an area where the only church is a Catholic one that they should go to that church because THEY NEED FELLOWSHIP with christians - better to fellowship with Catholics than to not have any fellowship.

REALLY???? I would say that it would be better to have NO fellowship that to fellowship with darkness. Remind yourself 2 Corinthians 6: 14-18

"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial. What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

“Therefore come out from them and be separate,says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,and I will receive you.” “I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."

You do not need to fellowship with Catholcs. If there is no other christian fellowship available, then God has promised that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth and you will experience the fellowship of the Holy Spirit who will be your teacher.

Basically, your comments show that you are effectively working for Rome by encouraging believers to go into the temple of demons. You are falling into the same error as Billy Graham and many others.

Anonymous said...

Jacob Prasch refers to Doug Harris as a dear brother in Christ and calls John and others "servants of Satan". Nowhere on this blog or DTW does anyone condone in ANY way an affinity to Roman Catholicism. Rather the uncompromised Gospel is rpesented here and on DTW. Seems to me that Mr. Prasch needs to take a closer look and see who is truly walking in truth.

Neither this blog or DTW have any other agenda than to defend the faith and serve the Lord and at a pretty high cost I might add.

Anonymous Annie

Colin said...

Edited Comment By John Chingford;

This comment was posted by Colin on 1st December 2pm. I need to mention that so that you see the comment in its rightful context. In error, I failed to publish it until now
:


John,
I should add that I hope none of us would shy off from calling obvious heretics; 'Ministers of Satan' should it be necessary.

Jacob Prasch was right to pull out of Revelation TV in the Jesse Duplantis affair. And at the time I applauded him for it.

There are many other false teachers out there, and it boggles my mind how folk can be taken in by the likes of Duplantis, Hinn, Copeland, Meyer etc.

It is the more subtle false teachers that we must ever be on our guard against. We are probably at the point whereby no teacher/ministry should be above suspicion. The leadership of RTV has also been openly exposed as sympathetic to the false Roman Church.

I certainly cannot defend Jacob's choice of words and exactly what, if anything, he has against you the Lord only knows.

I think in some measure his workload and hectic schedule may in part cause some of his outbursts. He probably feels that he is under attack! From some quarters I am sure he is. As I understand it he ministers to many and varied assemblies, so perhaps there is much doctrinal conflict?

I was, albeit for a very short period KJV only, and it was due to Jacob that I could see the light. Jacob doesn't trash the KJV, as some would say, he merely points out that the Scriptures were inspired in the original languages.

Although as a result of this, probably some may have departed from the KJV, which would be a shame. I use the AV/RV interlinear.

This period of time we are now living in is truly one of great apostasy. The wheat and the tares really are intermingled. It is my firm conviction that if any of us stray too far down strange non biblical roads like all this UFOology stuff, combined with the Nephillim and extra canonical sources such as the book of Enoch, we really are setting ourselves up for deception. Deuteronomy 29.29 would ever be a good Scripture to remind these ministries who have a strong foothold in the sensational end of Christian ministry, so-called.
God bless

John Chingford said...

As mentioned above, Jacob added something to the Moriel website that indicates that he may actually have ecumenical tendencies re Doug Harris endorsements.

As you know, some comments were written about this regarding this endorsement of Doug Harris who is a proved ecumenist. Please look at this direct link to the comments on this. Please read from this comment onwards:

http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2012/11/are-these-wordsactions-of-true-man-of.html?showComment=1354445318731#c623655301573976105

However, today the link to Moriel's article on Doug Harris http://moriel.org/MorielArchive/index.php/announcements/prayer-request/urgent-prayer-request-4
has been removed.

I could foresee that happening so that Jacob could call us liars again. Therefore, yersterday I took a screen shot of the article and pasted it into a Word document, as evidence before it got removed.

With the help of Deborah (DTW) she has created a pdf file link so that you can see the screen shot for yourself on

http://www.discerningtheworld.com/images/wpi/Moriel-PrayerRequest-DougHarris-ReadoutTrustUK.pdf

which is proof in case Jacob recommences by calling us liars again.

Anonymous said...

One word seems to fit this situation. BUSTED!!

It should be obvious who the liar is in this scenario and who is ducking the truth rather than coming clean.

Anonymous Annie

Butterfly said...

I was listening to a vid from Jacob Prasch on Youtube when I heard him bashing on a particular group. That threw a flag up, and since we all need to be diligent in who we listen to, I did some research on this guy. What I saw was absolutely appalling. He contradicts himself in SEVERAL areas and appears to twist Scripture to further his own cause. That aside, I have NEVER seen someone that calls himself a pastor/teacher NASTILY full-on attack a person, sounding more like a petulant teen than a preacher. He has much to answer for. Whatever his problem is with this woman Deborah does not excuse, IN ANY WAY, his letter to her calling her names and debasing her. IF, in fact, she is "filled w/demons and a daughter of satan" as he claims, how on EARTH is that letter supposed to minister to her? If she's not, that makes it that much worse. This should have been a private matter between the two of them. From reading several things about (and from) him, it seems that HE is the one that needs to "look in the mirror" so to speak and maybe even consider taking some anger management courses. I am truly appalled that a man that calls himself a "man of God" and a "pastor" would attack another human being on the levels he has stooped to. I will no longer listen to ANY of his messages, videos, etc. and will warn my friends of what I have learned about him.

John Chingford said...

Thanks Butterfly

Of course you are right. The sad thing is that JP has a vast following and NONE of them seem persuaded that his behaviour is wrong or reproachable. At best they excuse his behaviour because "he speaks the truth". They see him as an intelligent authoritarian on bible exegesis because of his apparent grasp of the OT Hebrew manuscripts and especially because they admire (worship?) the way he stands up to false teachers/false prophets.

In fact I used to appreciate him for exposing heresy in the church. However, something in me always niggled at me that he seemed too aggressive with his attacks.

His 'ministry' (if that is what you call it) of exposing wolves is indeed scriptural and a needed ministry in these days. This is what my blog is all about. But, we need to be careful that we do not become a tool of satan eg "accuser of the brethren". The danger is that we can easily attack the true as well as the false.

This is why this blog generally exposes false movements, false teachings rather than specific teachers.

Yes, I know I have a list! But the intro. to my list explains that I name these people because they belong to those false groups, not because of personal traits (only God knows their heart). The purpose of my list is to help those who are suspicious of false teaching to make up their own minds based on what organisations these teachers associate with.

The problem with JP is that he appears to NOW be the "accuser of the brethren" as well as those who are clearly false. In fact I question whether he DOES speak the truth, anyway. He has certainly told lies about me and Deborah.

How can you trust a man who habitually tells lies or fabricates the truth? Certainly his teaching that a truly born again believer has to continue to earn his eternal destiny in his own strength (Arminian theology) IS a false teaching - indeed a heresy according to the apostle Paul in the book of Galatians.

Keith Mahone (aka Charles Martel) said...

Lon and Jacob became proud and insisted on a kind of reverence and obedience few if any believers are capable of. Even Paul called himself the chief of sinners and said that he often did what he loathed to do in sinning. But we are forgiven. That's the whole point. Paul also disparaged the false alarm of false teachers disparaging grace as a "license to sin". Grace is grace. Obedience is obedience. But obedience can never supersede grace - or what need have we of grace? All sins, past present and future are forgiven by Christ for those who believe on His name. Indeed, every sin committed by those born after he was crucified were future sins from the perspective of the cross. And Jesus said "it is finished". Grace is sufficient. His work is done. He did not just offer men a second chance to live perfect lives or how many of us should need to be saved over and over again? And He does not just forgive sins that are not willful or sins that precede salvation. He forgives all sins. No one is worthy of this salvation, which is not of works, lest any man should boast. And yet, we see, to our shock and horror, these false teachers like Jacob Prasch and Lon Solomon boasting in their flesh, by reference to their repentance, their superior reverence for God. They purport to be raising the standard for the faith, by this means, when in fact they are lowering it. Thus, we must get the word out and sound the alarm like the watchman on the wall in Ezekiel. These are those who neither enter into the Kingdom themselves, nor suffer other to go in, those who lead men back under the law and under the penalty of sin for believing they can and must atone for their own unrighteousness - and thus denying the sufficiency, the mercy and the grace of that most complete sacrifice made by our Lord, Jesus Christ. I have also seen the New Age occultist heresies drawn into the church by these men. Jacob with his connection to Chuck Missler and others who dabble in the occult and Lon with his high-concept, dimly-lit, rock& roll church full of "open-minded" youngsters who are reacting out to their peers by making church more like the world and thus, more attractive, embracing worldy concepts like modern psychology, etc.

Keith Mahone (aka Charles Martel) said...

It is men and women who walk in the light, no matter how obscure they be, who must fight this battle against apostasy and present the true gospel. It is all of us, like the 7,000 prophets (preachers)to whom God referred when Elijah complained of being all alone. God was telling him He had plenty of other who did not bow down before the altars of Jezebel and Baal. They were not famous or Elijah would have known of them. They were obscure as we are, yet mighty for the Lord. And perhaps their obscurity was their salvation, given the steep penalty for preaching the true gospel in their day. So we can rejoice that we are nobody for God's glory. And we can come against the powers and principalities of evil, the tremendous darkness in high places with trendy allure and great followings. We are God's true people, the elect, those saved by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone - not by works or repentance - yet, saved once and for all eternity, with true assurance, true eternal security. We are those who are both called, with all men, and chosen, because we chose Him, according to the deal held out for everyone and the only way to avoid damnation. We are those who must mount up and ride with the sword of truth in our hands, steadied by our faith and bent upon the salvation of many others, the destruction of the influence of those who would lead them to hell. Let us take up this cause and succeed according to the Lord's purpose and good will. Amen. P.S. I suggest those of you who use YouTube where a lot of preaching is done inhabit the comments section to offer the truth to those who are being led astray. I have found a great deal of truth and consolation there, following links and such from the pit into the highest heavens where our Savior intercedes on our behalf day and night. Take the time to do this. The truth will remain where you leave it ad God will lead those who need it to that Living Water for his great glory. Plant these seeds, brothers and sisters. Use all things for His glory. Do not surrender any place to the enemy, but make the deserts of damning ignorance bloom with the Truth of the Gospel. Amen. Your brother in Christ, Keith Mahone

John Chingford said...

Hi Keith (aka Charles)

Thanks for that exhortation. I agree with most of what you have written except one point. You mention that repentance is not required for salvation. I must admit that I have now adjusted my views on what repentance is and when it happens, but it is still clear to me, that repentance (change of mind) HAS to occur hand in hand with faith.

To put your faith in Jesus as the only way to the Father you need to change your mind that you need a Saviour, ie that you are a sinner who cannot save himself and that you need salvation.

I am not talking about the works element of trying to work up a deep sorrow for sin. I am simply talking about an acknowledgement that you are a lost sinner destined for hell, recognising/believing that because Jesus is the Son of God that His sacrifice is all sufficient and then accept the eternal sacrifice of Jesus for forgiveness which has been offered to you.

From that moment of accepting Jesus as your Saviour, He comes to abide in you by His Holy Spirit. It is HE who changes you from within by His power.

If we take this the full distance, it may be construed that we should not be saying anything against those like Jacob Prasch because he is a brother (a sinner saved by grace) who is being gradually changed.

My problem with that is that there are many out there who say "Lord, Lord have we not done this and that in your name, but Jesus said depart from me, I never knew you"

Didn't these accept that they were sinners and put their trust in Jesus? But yet He said He never knew them, ie they were never saved - never known by the Lord (Only the saved an claim to be known of the Lord).

That tells me that it is possible to believe and not actually be born again. How could that happen? I think there must be something in the repentance action that we are missing.

To be born again by the Holy Spirit there must have been a humbling by the Holy Spirit bringing us to a place of brokenness before the Lord at our conversion.

The hall marks of those preachers like Word of faith, NAR and such, are that they lack humility carrying arrogance and pride (the very thing that caused satan to fall). Those who are born again are led by the Holy Spirit. He will prevent us from becoming proud.

Those that Jesus said He never knew were self obsessed with their own works which illustrates pride. This would suggest that those who carry pride and arrogance and an unwillingness to accept correction could possibly have never really received the Lord as their personal Saviour. Just saying.....!

I will not judge such men because only God knows what is in their hearts. I am simply trying to make sense of this.

God bless

John Chingford said...

I have just wandered into the Moriel website to check out the links they endorse.

I notice that Jews For Jesus (JFJ) are still included. JFJ have strong links to the strongly Rome controlled Lausanne Movement.

I wrote on this blog and to Jacob back in 2012 asking why they were still linked to the strongly ecumenical JFJ. Jacob told me that they would be removing the link in 2013. They stated it couldn't be done earlier because of difficulties. I think they said something about logistical reasons.

However, Oct 7th 2014 the link is still there.

I find that amazing after the way Jacob kicked up such a fuss about them NOT being linked to Lausanne. You would have thought that removing JFJ would have been a matter of urgency.

Clearly Moriel/Jacob speak with forked tongue and show (over and over again) that they DO have ecumenical tendencies - certainly massive inconsistencies.

With that in mind, why are true born again believers STILL following such an organisation?

Another example; I read on another blog that Jacob opposed the Hebrew roots theology. If that is the case, why is the Hebrew Roots link still shown on their list?

To see the list please use this url:

http://moriel.org/links.php

John Chingford said...

By the way, back in 2012 Moriel had an old template for their website. That old one was completely revamped to the one you see now. If they went to such an effort to change so much including transferring the links to the new format, why didn't they remove JFJ at that time. Something doesn't add up.

John Chingford said...

Regarding Lausanne and Jews For Jesus who are on the LCJE register, the link to that conversation is here:

http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2012/06/chuck-missler-his-vatican-ecumenical.html?showComment=1341047816584#c288573053409771888

Anonymous said...

As believers we are commanded to pray for one another and speak evil of no man. For leading persons of the Church of JESUS CHRIST to behave like this is some what alarming and disappointing, and I mean on all sides. None of this is CHRIST like. The enemy sits on the side lines and engage persons to view these remarks and some I may add will be discouraged by them. Let us pray the LORD will bring humility and reconciliation to all.
GOD Bless.

John Chingford said...

Hi Anonymous

You said: As believers we are commanded to pray for one another

Me: ABSOLUTELY!

You: and speak evil of no man

Me: All depends what you mean by speaking evil of? We ARE instructed to expose false teachers and warn against those who harm other believers.

You: None of this is CHRIST like.

Me: Do you have scriptural evidence (in context) that exposing those who are bringing harm to the Name of Jesus to be unChrist like?

You: The enemy sits on the side lines and engage persons to view these remarks and some I may add will be discouraged by them.

Me: really? Who is in ultimate control, satan or God?

If these words cause some to be discouraged because false teachers are exposed, then hopefully they will take their eyes off these leaders and fix their eyes more on Jesus by searching the scriptures and praying more earnestly. Nothing we say will prevent "He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion until the day of Christ" Phil 1:6

You: Let us pray the LORD will bring humility and reconciliation to all

Me: Absolutely we should pray that we all are brought to a place of humility.

However, we are not instructed to reconcile with those who insist on wrong doing - only with those those who are willing to repent.

In fact, the scriptures are clear: "have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them".Eph 5:11

junlee said...

Hello sir. I am Junlee Militar, from Boracay, Malay, Aklan, Philippines.

I thank God for your blog site which I found simple yet very interesting to read. Some questions which were puzzling me were answered through your writings and helpful research, and a balanced theological position which I am really impressed. I wonder if you have facebook site which i can browse. Thank you dear brother in Christ. You are a blessing to many Christians. I'l pray that your ministry will continue to have its impact and influence. Shalom

John Chingford said...

Thanks Junlee

It is always good to hear if/how this blog is helping people. I don't often get encouraging words, but when they come it is always welcome.

God bless

John Chingford said...

I got a comment on my google account from a Mark regarding this article. I have copied my reply here, because it highlights something important about the impact JP is having on his disciples.

"Hi Mark

Like most people who got on the JP band wagon, I was impressed by his boldness and frankness in calling out false prophets.

I used to listen to his preaching regularly from 1993 to 2009, without knowing some of the heresies he preaches (such as arminianism, fallen angels, support of the book of Enoch, partial rapture for "worthy" believers only, using midrash techniques to interpret scripture and [like catholic priests] insisting that only the enlightened - like himself can interpret scriptures correctly).

My only issue in those 16 years was the needless rude language he used. It is ok to call out false prophets and false leaders (it is scriptural) but there is a right and wrong way of doing it.

Although we MUST (as main priority) preach the truth, we MUST still do it in love, with a humble, gentle (but bold) spirit. Paul said "let your speech be gracious, seasoned with salt" WHY? "so that you will know how to answer everybody".

One of my issues with Jacob (which surely no-one can deny) is that he does not demonstrate love or humility and woe betide anyone who dares to disagree with him. In recent years (with the growth of the internet) others have questioned some of his teachings. His reaction to such criticism has been shocking.

To tell you the truth, Jacob is now doing more harm than good (not just by his worrisome teachings) by the attitude he instills in others.

He is causing (those who follow him) to become suspicious of everybody, treating everybody with contempt and coldness. Can you honestly say that those groups which have been influenced by Jacob are loving communities? Oh, they may appear to be so for a short while UNTIL they find fault in you, then you become ostracised and shunned. Is that really how christians should behave?

You know the saying "it takes one to know one". It appears that the biggest false teachers are those who call others as false from the platform. Even Benny Hinn calls out Joel Osteen and they are both from Word of Faith.

I have taken a look at the videos you have downloaded. You (like most JP disciples) speak more about how wonderful JP is than you do about the wonders of Jesus. Remember JP is JUST an imperfect sinner (saved by grace) like the rest of us. He is not a god!!!

Your anger and aggressiveness are shown throughout your youtube/google profile and is an example of the hatred/anger attitude that JP is instilling within his disciples.