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Tuesday, 12 October 2010

Answers To Questions On Why Emerging Church Teaching Should Be Rejected

Originally Posted July 2010, Now Showing as 12 Oct 2010 But Revised and Updated 27 Oct 2010
This article is a supplement to a previous article. Please click on this following shortcut link to read it:

Showing Why The (Experiential) Emerging Church Christianity is Apostate, Pagan, Babylonic and Catholic

You will notice that someone wrote some excellent comments with questions. They asked why was the Emerging church wrong and why it is considered Catholic. I would like to show the dialogue so that all readers can see what the issues are and the answers as to why Brian McLaren's Emerging Church teaching should be rejected. First of all, though, I would also like to give you a link to a video from Roger Oakland of Calvary Chapel. He gives a very powerful message exposing what the Emerging Church really is and its very dark roots   Anyway, here is the dialogue I mentioned above, as follows:

Sam said :

Ancient Future methodology of worship (when practiced truthfully) is firmly grounded in scripture?
Incense, candles, meditative hymns were all a part of God's design for the temple and He was meticulous in giving Moses details of what He wanted.

My Reply:
My articles relate to Brian McLaren’s corruptive preaching and the Emerging Church he is trying to pioneer. Rather than get into the accuracy of incense, candles and hymns in the temple, I want to focus my answer on why the Christian church should not practice those things as we are NOW under a different dispensation of the new covenant and not the old. The NT book of Hebrews, Romans, Galatians etc highlight that the New Covenant is a far better way because we no longer need to earn our salvation as the price has been paid in full. “We are no longer under Law but under grace”.

Hebrews teaches that the practices in the tabernacle followed on by the temple, were totally symbolic of Jesus and therefore it was necessary to be extremely meticulous over the practices. The sacrifices, incense, dress code etc were all temporary procedures until everything was fulfilled in Jesus. Everything pointed to Jesus being the High Priest, King and Mediator.

It illustrates the blood of Jesus etc etc. We are told in Hebrews and other NT books that the way to the Father has been made available to each and everyone of us through the death and resurrection of Jesus.

The veil was torn from top to bottom to show the way into God’s presence is freely available for everyone who put their trust in Jesus. It says that we can boldly approach the throne of Grace, through the NEW and living way that has been opened unto us.

The old has passed away behold the new has come. We no longer need symbolic worship because we have the REAL person to worship without incence etc.

Sam Said :
When Jesus comes on the scene, the only thing He tells the woman at the well about worship is that God seeks after those who worship Him in Spirit and Truth.

My Reply:
Absolutely true. We do not need the old temple practices because the way into God’s presence is available to us through the blood of Jesus. The true worshippers do not need to go to this or that mountain, they do not need to go to Jerusalem or even Toronto, Pensacola, Florida etc.
The true worshippers have complete access to the Father through Jesus and being filled with the Holy Spirit can serve Jesus where they are from their hearts. By the way it says “spirit and in truth”.

For those who ignore scriptures and just follow their experiences of “spirit” they are vulnerable to deception, error and the demonic, because Jesus said we could not ignore TRUTH. So the true worshippers worship (BTW, worship means serve as well as bow the knee) in spirit and in truth.

They follow the WHOLE counsel of God (the whole Bible in context) and “walk in the spirit and do not gratify the flesh”. John said to test the spirits to see whether they are of God. The way we test things is to ask does it match up with the Word Of God.

Once we surrender ourselves to Jesus we will be baptised in the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Truth then teaches us about all things we need to know but it should still be measured to the Bible.

Therefore, we do not follow the old code anymore or have to "create" the atmosphere or "presence" of God through experiential practices. Our experience of God is internal within our hearts and spiritual. To use "earthly" and sensual methods to connect with God has its origins in Babylon and used by a lot of pagan Eastern religions.

Sam Said:
However, we don't hear of incense being used and we can surmise that perhaps it was because they were being persecuted. Obviously the incense would not have been beneficial to use during a worship gathering if you are being looked for in an effort to kill you

My Reply:
As mentioned above the reason incense etc is not used is because it is not required anymore. In fact Paul told the Galatians that if they followed the old code Christ would have died in vain. He used strong words to tell them that they MUST stop following the Law or they will have fallen from Grace!!! He actually said that those who preached such things are damned! STRONG words!

Sam said :
Notice that there is nowhere in all the New Testament where we are given a formula or blueprint for "how" we are to hold a worship gathering.

My Reply:
Actually the New Testament is full of examples how to worship. ! Corinthians 12-14, Ephesians, Philippians, Peter etc etc. Best of all, the Acts of the Apostles show us how the early church worshipped. The Bible should always be our guide and not “traditions” which came much later.

In fact Jesus had some scathing things to say about the Jewish religious leaders “traditions”. Paul warned the Ephesians that the Mystery of Iniquity through “ravenous wolves” would enter the church (inferring the Babylonic mysteries) bringing in destructive heresies.

This happened through the early fathers of the Catholic church. What is happening through the Emerging church is the attempt to restore these Babylonic Mysteries back to the Protestant and Evangelical churches.

Regarding formulas, the Bible does not teach that we follow formulas (as such). Formulas is an example of Babylonic Mysteries. The Holy Spirit is not a formula. Jesus said (referring to the Holy Spirit) “the wind blows where it wills”.

We are simply obliged to be obedient to the Lord as instructed through the scriptures and not to find extra biblical methods. Paul said that we are not to be conformed to the world (or the way the world thinks) but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. This renewing is done by the Holy Spirit and not by New Age gurus.

Sam said :
Paul tells the Corinthians that when they come together everyone has a song, a teaching, a word of exhortation, etc. If that is our blueprint then today's church is FAR from "doing" church correctly. Today's church only allows the pastor to speak while everyone else is a spectator.

My Reply:
Actually, the Bible does give us a clear blue print and does indicate one speaker at a time. For example Peter on the day of Pentecost, Paul when preaching to a crowd or the church. Besides we are not told to “do” church. We are living stones and a royal priesthood. We ARE the church, we do not do church but are the church. So when two or three of us meet together whether in a meeting or witnessing etc Jesus promised to be amongst us. As He is the Head and we are the body we simply abide in Him and follow scriptural guidelines. As we are the body and He is the head, then we need to meet together because we need each other. The Holy Spirit distributes different spiritual gifts individually to use as a “body” to build each other up. As we use these gifts we are acting out “church” in obedience to the scriptures and to the Lord.

Sam said :
It is easy to believe (and even logical) that as the first believers were Jews, they brought with them many of their Jewish practices with them into worship. A good example of this is Peter when he receives the vision of the sheet. He is praying his hourly prayer which most modern Christians would say is either unnecessary or legalistic.

My Reply:
Yes Paul and the Apostles had to address this very thing. Paul writes quite a lot in his letters about the dangers of legalism, holding onto the Law and traditions. He puts it in very strong words that those who follow the Law or works are putting the Lord to public shame all over again.

Effectively they have rejected the Death and resurrection of Jesus as NOT enough to save us. He points this out as heresy. Paul had to challenge Peter over some of his legalistic and hypocritical ways which Peter accepted. In fact the example you give of his vision goes on to say how Peter realised that some of his practices HAD to end.

Regarding hourly prayer, if Peter did it out of legalism it WOULD be wrong, but Acts 10 does not say he did it out of legalism or custom it simply says “peter went up onto the roof to pray (fullstop). He did it out of his love and devotion to the Lord. 

Sam said :
All of this to say, that simply because something "sounds" Roman Catholic to an Evangelical's ears, doesn't make it wrong or bad.

My Reply:
If anyone follows Catholic practices it IS wrong because it IS unscriptural, idolatry, legalistic and therefore in Paul’s words to the Galatians an anathema.


Expected Imminently said...

Hello John
Your reply to Sam is 'spot on'. When I read his comment I groaned, bless him, so keen yet so deceived and 'captured' by mans dead philosophy, like too many others.

God bless

Hello Sam
Col.2:8,9 "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form…

2Cor.12:9a And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you…

Eph.1:17-23 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, MAY GIVE YOU (Sam)a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and ABOVE EVERY NAME THAT IS NAME, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
And He put all things under His feet and gave Him as Head over all things to the church, which is His Body, the FULLNESS of Him who fills All in All.

God bless you

John Chingford said...

Thanks EI for your valuable contribution. I have also posted a copy of your comment (hope that's ok) to the original posting about the Emerging Church.

God bless

Expected Imminently said...

Hello John

I wanted to share some of the encouragement and teaching I have been having via Pastor Bob Hoektsra regarding the Emergent emergency. I found him via The Blue Letter Bible.

The Pastor has done a set of messages free to download from his own site.

Click on ‘Teachings’.

Then Messages.

Click on the third down from the top ‘Emerging Church’ (in four parts.)

They have to be downloaded to hear them.

Within his messages on ‘Contending for the Faith’ is -

‘The Psychologizing of the Church’.

This goes hand in glove with the Purpose Driven and Emergent heresy.

Also really valuable is ‘Counselling God’s Way’ for the same reason.

Please take a look,I have found it really helpful. He also has a talk on 'Promise Believers' a Biblical answer against 'Promise Keepers'.

Another Pastor, Bob Dewaay on ‘Olive Tree’ with Jan Markell, explained that Purpose Driven and Emergent/ Emerging are two ‘movements’, both with their roots in the same mire and both teach ‘another gospel’.

I am slow, but I am gradually getting a better grip on this particular part of the end time apostasy.

Every blessing in Jesus - keep keeping on!