tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post5379970901131363905..comments2024-01-08T16:49:46.424+00:00Comments on Last Days Watchman: Romans Chapter 9 DOES NOT Disprove Freewill but Actually Reinforces It. Looking At The Context Of The WHOLE Book of RomansAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04713448621601972014noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-36720970218916810062013-01-17T13:39:39.246+00:002013-01-17T13:39:39.246+00:00....Continued
Ronnie,
Out of the whole chapter yo.......Continued<br /><br />Ronnie,<br />Out of the whole chapter you chose to select the only verses which did not clearly address Israel and the gentiles collectively. You have to match those verses in CONTEXT with the rest of the chapter which reveals (as I have shown) that those verses MUST be referring to God's mercy over the gentiles collectively.<br />it says "Jacob I have loved and Essau have I hated" it doesn't mean that He hates anyone or rejects anyone. It simply means that He called Jacob to be the father of a great nation. Jacob represents Israel. Essau surely represents the gentiles who "did what was right in their own eyes".<br /><br />God knew Jacob would choose to please God and that Esau would rather choose pleasure, therefore because God knows all things before they happen, chose Jacob to be the father of His chosen nation as light bearers to a dark world.<br /><br />Those verses are NOT discussing that God chose who will have eternal life and who should spend eternity in hell. It is discussing who God chose to be HIS representatives on Earth as a light to the nations.<br /><br />Verse 15 says "For he saith to Moses, I will have <b>mercy</b> on whom I will have <b>mercy</b>, and I will have <b>compassion</b> on whom I will have <b>compassion</b>."<br /><br />SEE, His WILL is all about HIS mercy and compassion. It is nothing to do with sending people to hell.<br /><br />All of God's plans/actions are ultimately to make a way for EVERYONE to be saved. What stops most people from being saved? Their hardness of heart. They harden their hearts by continuing to go their own way, rather than God's and to resist God's will (using freewill).<br /><br />When it says God hardened Pharoah's heart it was because Pharoah's heart was probably already hardened but it became more hardened every time he said "no" to God. Effectively his heart was hardened by God because God kept sending Moses to him and put Pharoah in a position where he regularly had to say no or yes, but kept saying no.<br /><br />Therefore, the writer of Exodus wrote down what he saw and heard from God.<br /><br />What I am trying to show is that we CANNOT use verse 15-16 as proof that God ever sends people to hell or that He does not give freewill. There is too much doubt about what it actually means.<br /><br />All we can do is compare those verses with the REST of the Bible AS A WHOLE BOOK looking at God's eternal workings and plan of salvation in reference to the WHOLE overview and NEVER pick and choose verses we like (in isolation) to prove our opinion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04713448621601972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-11814935911355731852013-01-17T13:39:16.769+00:002013-01-17T13:39:16.769+00:00Hi Ronnie
Have you considered those verses in con...Hi Ronnie<br /><br />Have you considered those verses in context with the whole chapter ie verses 1-14 and 17 onwards and how it all fits together in the chapters 9-11?<br /><br />I have just taken a look at it again.<br /><br />Those verses are referring to God's mercy in calling the gentiles to salvation.<br /><br />Link it to 2 Peter 3:9 "it is NOT God's will that any should <b>perish</b> but that <b>ALL</b> should come to repentance" and then it starts to make sense.<br /><br />Incidentally, it DOES NOT SAY "it is not God's will that <b>any of the elect</b> should perish but that <b>all of the elect</b> should come to repentance"<br /><br />That is heresy, because you would be ADDING to the Word of God.<br /><br />The context is CLEAR that Peter is referring to EVERYONE as shown in John 3:16 "for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that <b>WHOSOEVER</b> believes in Him shall <b>not perish</b> but have everlasting life"<br /><br />The fact is that it is NOT God's will for any to perish. God wants to display His mercy - NOT hatred or anger. God had made a way for EVERYONE to experience HIS mercy, through Jesus - NOT JUST TO ISRAEL.<br /><br />That is what Romans 9 is all about. <br /><br />One of the reasions that Paul wrote to the Romans was because of the trouble being caused by the Judaizers within the primarily Jewish church.<br /><br />You have only got to look at the first 10 chapters of Acts to see how prejudiced and arrogant the Jewish believers were about their elitism and superiority over the gentiles.<br /><br />Just see their surprise when the gentiles came to faith in their messiah!!! The first thing they tried to do was to make the gentiles Jewish converts.<br /><br />However, God gave a special revelation to Paul. God had called Paul to open the good news to the gentiles and that Israel would soon suffer the consequences of their rejecting their Messiah (until they collectively say - in the future - "blessed is HE who comes in the Name of the Lord").<br /><br />God showed Paul that He wanted to show His mercy on the gentiles as a collective group globally.<br /><br />To continue......Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04713448621601972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-42834440800272439702013-01-17T12:40:41.544+00:002013-01-17T12:40:41.544+00:00Why does it say in romans 9:16 So then it is not o...Why does it say in romans 9:16 So then it is not of HIM who wills,Nor of Him who who runs. but of God who shows mercy.<br /><br />HIM to me means a individual Person.<br />It seems to me that it is a Individual Person that is shown Mercy Like Jacob was made into a vessel of honor<br /><br />But Easu and Pharaoh was each a individual Person That was Chosen for dishonor. With Easu and Jacob the choices was made by God before they were born. Eaua could not will to have salvation and Jacob could not will to not have salvation. And no matter if Pharoah willed to have salvation<br />it is not for him to will it.<br /><br />was this the case Just for them. having no free-will? But the rest of humanity has free-will ? Ronnie Shakespearenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-72471291029822132352012-11-28T12:28:24.501+00:002012-11-28T12:28:24.501+00:00Notice that even Romans chapter 9 ends with a perf...Notice that even Romans chapter 9 ends with a perfect free will verse as the last verse of that chapter :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-50133881502250999452012-11-16T00:22:34.778+00:002012-11-16T00:22:34.778+00:00I hear you re Warren, EI.
Pity about CIP Journal....I hear you re Warren, EI.<br /><br />Pity about CIP Journal. It's boring there at the moment. I post at the Facebook version when I have time. <br /><br />I visit Mitchell's blog (remember him?) occasionally and I'm afraid to report that his ideas have taken off like wild hares.<br /><br />Anyway, it's good to see that you're doin' fine. Keep up the good fight!<br /><br />amc <br /><br /><br /><br />amcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-46571170304470325062012-11-07T18:53:24.174+00:002012-11-07T18:53:24.174+00:00RG/amc – God bless your heart! I have just called ...RG/amc – God bless your heart! I have just called in on the off chance to check out John’s warnings – what a treat, as here you are. I’m not ‘around’ much, as, contrary to popular belief, I’m not well versed with the internet. <br /><br />It’s so nice to be missed, and I can truthfully say that I have missed you equally and look out for your comments when browsing.<br /><br />I also miss some of the others and even dear old Nathan, but I fear he has ‘gorn orf’ me since I began to fight against appalling, occult based deception. <br /><br />What is being accepted as ‘christianity’ has truly shocked me. Nay, I am stunned, by so much Biblical ignorance being approved by people who ought to know better. I am content to ‘wink’ at many differences, but never anything that undermines The Gospel.<br /><br />When Lamb&Lion said they had no problems with Rick Warrens teaching (other than prophecy) I was flabbergasted – never has my gast been so flabbered!<br /><br />Rick Warren teaches another Jesus, another gospel and another spirit, yet according to L&L, that’s fine!!!! Yet they know RW teaching has smashed my family apart. THAT’S why I separated myself from them. <br /><br />I have since realised that Dr. Reagan likes to run with the hare as well as with the hounds and is also personally subject to giving false prophesy, even admiring the late Oral Roberts, false teacher extraordinaire. <br /><br />I write here for you to see as I can think of no other way to express to you my appreciation. <br />Thanks John for your time.<br /><br />Sue<br /><br />MARANATHA!Expected Imminentlynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-24426306725536102342012-11-01T19:28:05.895+00:002012-11-01T19:28:05.895+00:00EI, good to see you're still around. Missed se...EI, good to see you're still around. Missed seeing you over at Doc Reagan's.<br /><br />rg AKA amcamcnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-11938231825920709152012-09-29T02:31:16.422+01:002012-09-29T02:31:16.422+01:00Hi Sue
It is good to hear from you again. The con...Hi Sue<br /><br />It is good to hear from you again. The contents of your comment are heartening to me and warmly accepted. Welcome back!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04713448621601972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-47149203701525714592012-09-29T02:26:06.004+01:002012-09-29T02:26:06.004+01:00Hello John
I would like to offer a public apology...Hello John<br /><br />I would like to offer a public apology, and show an expression of regret for all the hurt I caused in the past.<br /><br />Soon and very soon, we are all going to stand before Jesus, and nothing in this world has any importance compared to that precious moment.<br /><br />He knows all about it; and with the door into Eternity about to open, any post salvation sins that come to my mind, I want to deal with as quickly as possible via 1John1:9.<br /><br />I am still praising The Lord, as I hope you are.<br /><br />Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.<br /><br />SueExpected Imminentlynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-72789455721769421912012-09-14T21:45:00.706+01:002012-09-14T21:45:00.706+01:00Thanks Connie for your comments.
You may have mis...Thanks Connie for your comments.<br /><br />You may have missed what I was saying. When Paul talks about the objects of God's mercy vs the objects of His wrath, he is not discussing individuals per se but he is discussing Gentiles Collectively and Israel collectively.<br /><br />God told Jeremiah that He wanted to make Israel into something special AS A NATION but they did not let Him thereby subsequently placed themselves outside God's love and protection. In effect found themselves being destroyed as a Nation. <br /><br />Whereas the Gentile Christians collectively became the objects of God's mercy. As we know in Romans 11 Paul expounds on this by saying that the Gentiles were being grafted in and many Jews being cut out.<br /><br />Regarding losing one's salvation I have studied that subject for 30 plus years and am convinced now by the whole biblical overview of God's eternal plan and by the overwhelming number of passages which show that one cannot be born into the family of God and then become "unborn".<br /><br />As I have studied this subject in great detail you can be assured that I am fully aware of all the "so-called" verses which claim to show that one can "lose" their salvation.<br /><br />Therefore, I could show the context (leading to all those verses that may be quoted) showing it does not mean what you think it does or at least that another reasonable explanation could be given.<br /><br />As I always say, if the vast majority of passages give an overall picture of the truth but some isolated verses seem to contradict it, guess who is wrong? It cannot be the inerrant Word of God. IT MUST BE our interpretation because we only have finite/imperfect minds.<br /> <br />Actually, I have addressed this whole topic before on another article so will not get drawn into it on this one.<br /><br />You can read it on:<br /><br />http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/why-true-believers-are-eternally-secure.html<br /><br />Having said this,<br /><br />I always appreciate the content of your comments, dear sister.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04713448621601972014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1842260823875796403.post-37988130519586820422012-09-14T21:15:58.128+01:002012-09-14T21:15:58.128+01:00John, That was a good video and I totally agree wi...John, That was a good video and I totally agree with you on the issue of election vs. free will. I see God's statement about creating vessels fit for destruction in this way, He knows in advance who will be His by their choice and who will choose to reject Him. Consequently He does create people that He knows will go to destruction (by their own choice).<br /><br />He does this, as He says, so that those of His elect may see His great mercy in not only putting up with them and what they do to His children, but by even giving them the chance to accept or reject Him. <br /><br />Just because He knows in advance doesn't mean He makes the choice for them.<br /><br />As for eternal security, I think I may differ with you somewhat on that as like you I believe all of Scripture must be taken in context and there are some verses that indicate that because of our free will, we can choose to walk away from God in unbelief even after having accepted him.Connienoreply@blogger.com