Edited 11 Dec 2010 (the section edited is in bold).
There are many who say that the bible prophesies revival in the end times church and point to megachurches and great church growth to prove this. I will not get into debate (on this specific post) to prove FROM THE BIBLE that the last days mostly ushers in apostasy and not great church growth, although this does not discount that there could be local revivals big or small. Certainly there will be a last days revival within Israel and during the Tribulation of those leaving the apostate church but then facing certain death (after the apostate has fully developed).
I like most believers welcome revival and do not dismiss that there could be some form of
revival in the last days. But any revival must be from God and not instigated by man. Jesus said I (not men) will build my church. Acts says the Lord (not men) added to the church daily those who were being saved.
Any church growth MUST be a revival of the Holy Spirit, brought supernaturally by God without the manipulations of men and it WILL be bible based.
Problem is that church leaders (being desperate for revival) have sought worldly means to achieve it. They say that they welcome any means that will bring in church growth. So what we see happening is man's ideas and Man's programs bringing about church growth through giving the people what they want rather than what they need.
In the marketing world they say "give the people what they want - not what they need", ie supply/demand principles.
The bible however, states the opposite that man is lost, sinful and hellbound and NEED to be saved regardless of whether they WANT this or not, this is what we MUST preach.
Edited 11 Dec 2010
We must preach the truth regardless of whether people join the church or desert it. Jesus did not tell the people what they wanted to hear, neither did the Apostles. They said some hard things to the extent that some walked away in sadness, like the rich young ruler.
Jesus said "wide is the way that leads to destruction" "narrow is the path that leads to Life". Jesus said "let a man deny himself, take up his cross and follow me". Jesus was NEVER concerned about offending his hearers but spoke the Truth ALWAYS whether they accepted it or not. He said some very harsh things to the religious authorities or those who were half hearted, in following Him. Many were offended on what Jesus said. But, it is the Truth that truly deeply converts the soul - not telling people what they want to hear - which produces superficial conversions.
To be a disciple of Jesus requires guts and determination - especially if you are in a hostile persecutory environment. It is for determined Adults who will follow Jesus whatever the cost. It is not for those who want to remain as babies, spoon fed or mollycoddled. The message needs to "tell it as it is" and not be watered down to suit the hearers.
If the true message is preached, then if there is church growth (full of born-again saved believers) then it MUST be all of God's doing, rather than man, because the sinful nature of man does not want to be told that he needs a saviour and does not respond to the full message of the gospel. So if these are converted it MUST be a miracle of God and true Holy Spirit conversion.
As a supplement to this article, I have written another article dated 6 Dec 2010 showing how the so-called revivals of the late 20th Century and 21st Century are actually the result of the false, apostate "seeker sensitive" approach. Please click on this following shortcut link to go to that article Background To Why The Twentieth Century Evangelical Church Became Apostate
There are many who say that the bible prophesies revival in the end times church and point to megachurches and great church growth to prove this. I will not get into debate (on this specific post) to prove FROM THE BIBLE that the last days mostly ushers in apostasy and not great church growth, although this does not discount that there could be local revivals big or small. Certainly there will be a last days revival within Israel and during the Tribulation of those leaving the apostate church but then facing certain death (after the apostate has fully developed).
I like most believers welcome revival and do not dismiss that there could be some form of
revival in the last days. But any revival must be from God and not instigated by man. Jesus said I (not men) will build my church. Acts says the Lord (not men) added to the church daily those who were being saved.
Any church growth MUST be a revival of the Holy Spirit, brought supernaturally by God without the manipulations of men and it WILL be bible based.
Problem is that church leaders (being desperate for revival) have sought worldly means to achieve it. They say that they welcome any means that will bring in church growth. So what we see happening is man's ideas and Man's programs bringing about church growth through giving the people what they want rather than what they need.
In the marketing world they say "give the people what they want - not what they need", ie supply/demand principles.
The bible however, states the opposite that man is lost, sinful and hellbound and NEED to be saved regardless of whether they WANT this or not, this is what we MUST preach.
Edited 11 Dec 2010
We must preach the truth regardless of whether people join the church or desert it. Jesus did not tell the people what they wanted to hear, neither did the Apostles. They said some hard things to the extent that some walked away in sadness, like the rich young ruler.
Jesus said "wide is the way that leads to destruction" "narrow is the path that leads to Life". Jesus said "let a man deny himself, take up his cross and follow me". Jesus was NEVER concerned about offending his hearers but spoke the Truth ALWAYS whether they accepted it or not. He said some very harsh things to the religious authorities or those who were half hearted, in following Him. Many were offended on what Jesus said. But, it is the Truth that truly deeply converts the soul - not telling people what they want to hear - which produces superficial conversions.
To be a disciple of Jesus requires guts and determination - especially if you are in a hostile persecutory environment. It is for determined Adults who will follow Jesus whatever the cost. It is not for those who want to remain as babies, spoon fed or mollycoddled. The message needs to "tell it as it is" and not be watered down to suit the hearers.
If the true message is preached, then if there is church growth (full of born-again saved believers) then it MUST be all of God's doing, rather than man, because the sinful nature of man does not want to be told that he needs a saviour and does not respond to the full message of the gospel. So if these are converted it MUST be a miracle of God and true Holy Spirit conversion.
As a supplement to this article, I have written another article dated 6 Dec 2010 showing how the so-called revivals of the late 20th Century and 21st Century are actually the result of the false, apostate "seeker sensitive" approach. Please click on this following shortcut link to go to that article Background To Why The Twentieth Century Evangelical Church Became Apostate
I don't think we will see true Church revival as the original 1st century faith has been corrupted God is always sending revival but to individuals not to churches or organisations. These individuals are quietly finding each other slowly but surely through the internet. We are witnessing to our families and friends but the world does not want God just as it was predicted in the Bible. What I found was Revelation TV on Sky channel 581 (was 585 until 1st April) The station calls itself the Church Without Walls and is great for people like me who don't have a bible-lead church to go to. In our village there are 4 churches :
ReplyDeleteA Pentecostal church, a Jehovah's Witness church, the Salvation Army and a Church in Wales (more or less like C of E).
But, people are meeting other people with the same views via the internet and they can have video conferencing or have Bulletin Boards where they can teach/learn and discuss the Word, current world events and fellowship with each other.
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Dan 12:4 I think this refers to the Internet, isn't there a satellite called the Angel ? I'm not sure.
Anyway, I have learnt more over the Internet in the last 9 years about the Bible, the Jewish roots of Christianity, Revelation and end times than I ever did when I was in the church for 20+ years.
This has been copied and pasted from a conversation within my post "Why We Should Reject Rick Warren's Purpose Driven and PEACE Agenda"
ReplyDeleteJohn Chingford said...
Mr E, are you suggesting that the church growth explosion we see today proves that revival is prophesied in the bible during the last days?
I like most believers welcome revival and do not dismiss that there could be some form of revival in the last days. But any revival must be from God and not instigated by man.
Jesus said I (not men) will build my church. Acts says the Lord (not men) added to the church daily those who were being saved.
Any church growth MUST be a revival of the Holy Spirit and WILL be bible based.
Problem is that church leaders (being desperate for revival) have sought worldly means to achieve it. They say that they welcome any means that will bring in church growth. So what we see happening is MAN@S ideas and Man's programs bringing about church growth through giving the people what they want rather than what they need.
In the marketing world they say "give the people what they want - not what they need", ie supply/demand principles.
The bible however, states the opposite that man is lost, sinful and hellbound and NEED to be saved regardless of whether they WANT this or not, this is what we MUST preach.
We must preach the truth regardless of whether people join the church or desert it.
By doing this then if there is church growth full of born-again saved believers then it MUST be all of God doing, rather than man, because the sinful nature of man does not want to be told that he needs a saviour.
Mr E said...
John, In answer to an earlier question,
I don't think there's any dispute there - in my book revival is a sovereign move of God and not something men can manipulate (other than through prayer).
It's something of an American phenomenon to call evangelism "revival", but to me that's a misappropriation.
I would also say that some things labelled as "revival" are not.
Revivals are distinct from mission and evangelism - neither of which should be denigrated - that's what we're called to do.
I also believe that the church will grow in the last days - like the rock cut from the mountain in Daniel - to fill the earth.
Church growth, arising from a move of the Holy Spirit, accompanied by genuine repentance is something we should look for, pray for and embrace.
John Chingford said...
Hi Mr E, again thanks for your reply.
you quote from Daniel chapter 2 about the rock cut out but not by human hands.
I have read that passage through and through many times, comparing it with other scriptures. Surely the passage DOES NOT indicate a specific end times global revival?
In the context, it seems to be talking about Jesus setting up His church on the Earth sometime DURING the individual empires mentioned, ie AD30.
This kingdom will NEVER end and will outlast all the kingdoms on the Earth. Ultimately it will not just outlast them but will bring them to an end by God's doing not man's action(violently?).
We know that Jesus will return and reign (with His church) on Earth for a thousand years. God says that we will rule over nations in that millennial kingdom. But beforehand God will pour out His wrath on the Earth.
So surely the crushing refers to the judgement of God followed by the thousand year reign?
Whenever the scriptures refers to God's reign on Earth, ultimate peace on Earth and the glory of the Lord covering the Earth it is talking about the same event, ie. Jesus physical reign on Earth with His church (which has been changed in an instance and transformed into the image of Christ, the mortal putting on the immortal. 1 Cor 15).
Surely Daniel 2 is not talking about a pre millennial global revival but a millennial one?
Daniel context is definitly sited at the end of the 7 yr Tribulation when Christ THE Rock returns in the 2nd Coming and smashes to smitherines all Gentile government. This is the end of the 'Times of the Gentiles'.
ReplyDeleteThe Rock that will fill the earth with the government upon His shoulders is during the 1000yr rule of Christ Jesus on this present earth.
The Bible nowhere prephecies an entime worldwide revival, rather the apostaste, lukewarm Laodicean church is prophecied which will turn into the GREAT Apostasy during the rule of antichrist.
Sue
For those who get my automatic updates. Please note that I have edited this older article and crosslinked it to a new article written on 6 Dec 2010.
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